I would like to comment on the recurring theme of father and sons in Shahnameh. First there is Sam and Zal. Sam is ashamed of Zal because of his black skin and white hair which makes him look like a demon (but is also said to look like an old man) and he ostracized his son until he has a haunting dream and tries to find his son once again. Once they are reunited everything seems dandy and all is forgiven. Their relationship can be paralleled to Rostam and his son Sohrab. Rostam had a lover named Tahmina and he told her if she ever bore a child to give him a certain bracelet so that he would know who they were if they were to ever meet. Like Zal, Sohrab doesn’t meet his father until he has grown into a man, but instead of them being reunited by a dream, they meet on the battlefield and neither know that they are related. Unfortunately, Rostam kills Sohrab before he sees the bracelet. These two relationships can be compared in the sense that not only is this all the same blood line it has distinct similarities. For example, both Rostam and Sam don’t see their child until he has grown to manhood, however in Zal’s case he was raised by a bird and in Sohrab’s case he was raised by his abandoned mother. Also the idea that the mother is never reunited with the father, in Sam’s story the mother is unnamed and is only seen as a palace courtier that Sam abandons with his “demon baby.” In Rostam’s story he just leaves Tahmina to go on more campaigns, but she only seen with Rostam when they conceive a child and is abandoned to take care of it. Although there are many more similarities there is also some differences in the theme of father and son for Sam and Zal, and Rostam and Sohrab. When Sam and Zal meet again they are reunited in the way that Sam celebrates the coming home of his son Zal having a huge feast and names him king of Zavolestan. While when Rostam and Sohrab meet it’s on the battlefield where Sohrab is killed by his father. I think the theme of father and son plays an important role within this epic because the entire epic seems to center around family blood line of Sam and the importance of who one mates with. For example the whole scandal of Zal and Rudabeh since they weren’t of the same marriage, and how Rostam’s scandalous half son is what causes his downfall. Without this theme, the epic would lack sense and symmetry.
While doing this week's readings, I too noticed this reoccurring theme of father and son. While I agree with your points on maintaining the symmetry of the epic, I also think it holds a greater meaning, similar to in "The Aeneid". With the case of Sam and Zal, Sam shows remorse at the treatment of his son and in doing so is able to reconnect with him. Rostam on the other hand, while a great and strong hero, seems to care less about his son then campaigning and so never is reunited with his son and in fact commits the dreadful deed of killing him. In this way I think that "Shahname" is going further than merely creating symmetry, it is also creating a story about morality and familial obligation.
I thought Rostam was one of the more exciting pieces of literature we have read so far this semester. It could just be me but I thought the use of imagery that Ferdowsi was able to use throughout the stories was amazing. It especially stood out in dialogue between Zal and Rudabeh, when they use their servants to communicate with each other. I thought the story line was a little corny at times, two lovers separated by a great distance who would be forbidden to see each other because their parents would be infuriated.
To go along with the imagery in the book, I liked how he would break away from the story with the use of a poem. It was typically how the descriptions of the characters became so clear to me. For example on page 12 when the courtier is talking about Rudabeh,
“In Purdah, and unseen by anyone, He has a daughter lovelier than the sun. Lashes like ravens’ wings protect a pair Of eyes like wild narcissi hidden there; If you would seek the moon, it is her face; If you seek musk, her hair’s its hiding place...”
He used this style of writing consistently throughout the play. I’m not sure if it was the difference in the way it read or how descriptive it was that I liked but I thought it made the reading much better. I also didn’t realize how impressive the pictures were in the beginning of the book until the end when they talked about the pits in the hunting land.
I agree, and I think it made for a much more interesting read. The style of writing and how the characters speak is more formal, metaphoric, and passionate. I like how rather than just calling someone strong, they are described as “lionhearted” and someone beautiful is “paradise.” I also noticed that all the characters feel seem to feel everything more deeply than most characters in books of modern literature, and they express it very eloquently. For example, Rostam passionately exclaims he would rather die than be chained and embarrass his name- and he means it. I really enjoyed the eloquent and passionate language because it made for a more exciting read and exposed me to a different time period and culture’s beautiful style of writing.
Brian, I agree with you to an extent that the parents of Rudabeh and Zal would be infuriated at them if they fell in love with one another. However, Rudabeh and Zal were separated and had difficulty becoming lovers because of the vast cultural differences and their parents' mutual xenophobia. I enjoyed learning about the various cities mentioned in the book because it showed how vast the Persian Empire was during Rostam's time. Shahnameh had similar cultural themes to Virgil's Aeneid. Both had dealt with the fact that God was a major factor in decisions people made, and in different ways, The Roman and Persian Empires express xenophobia, as was shown in both The Aeneid and Shahnameh.
While reading the Tales of Love and War from The Shahnameh, I noticed how important it was to have an epic hero at all times in the stories. All of these tales, emphasize the hero, who is almost always descended form the same line of Sam. For the entire lineage of Sam, it is seen that family is not always the most important thing to the heroes. For, in the beginning, when Sam’s son Zal was seen as strange and cursed, he decided to get rid of Zal instead of embracing his son’s flaws. Luckily Zal did not perish, and when he grew older his father Sam had a change of heart and cherished his son. But, Zal did not take heed of the love offered and said that he was destined to fight in wars. Then when Zal produces his son, Rostam, he too sets off to fight instead of taking care of his families wants and needs, for it was his fate to fight all the wars that he saw as just. Likewise, Rostam’s son Sohrab, unknown to Rostam, fights his father because he knew that what he was meant to do. It goes to show that Rostam was not a family man because he did not even recognize his own son. Unfortunately, the fate of being a hero in all of these stories is to forever be at war for the good of the nation, leaving family behind. Another thing that I would like to mention is the complete trust in God displayed in the book. I noticed that whenever one of the heroes met with someone, especially the king, they would call on God to give His blessing to the one addressed. Likewise, whenever a letter was addressed it would start by showering down God’s blessing on the receiver. Furthermore, all of the great warriors would call on God before and during battles, so that He would protect them, if it were His will. Along with this, all the warriors were not fearful of death in itself, but were most concerned as to where they would end up after death, heaven or hell. Since this was one of there main concerns they tried to fight every battle and perform every task in a just way, with God as witness. So, unlike Virgil’s Aeneid, the characters in the Shahnameh believe in only one God, like the Muslims in Asia, instead of many God’s like the Greeks and Romans. But, similarly both books trust in some higher power that controls and guides them.
I really found your argument about the heroes being fated to leave their families and go off to war very interesting. Like Aeneas, these heroes were fated to fight in these wars and to accomplish something greater than themselves as individuals. This brings us back to the idea of fate, and how no one can escape from their own. The Gods influence the actions of the heroes in these stories to ensure that they are able to fulfill their destinies. Both Aeneas and Zal left their significant partners in order to fulfill a destiny that was much greater than themselves, and would influence countless others well beyond their own life times.
Rostam: Tales of Love and War from the Sahnameh was definitely a book that I have enjoyed reading, not only are the characters larger than life but it took me back to the days when I would watch movies about witches and monsters. While reading, I felt like I was taken back to a fantasy world of superheroes and villains but also intertwining with themes of love, loss, courage and honor. It also shows different generations of father son relationship which seems to escalate quickly.
A lot of the events that happen in the book seemed so surreal and hard to imagine now that I’m older but that is what makes the character and the story itself. Rostam’s gruesome birth, the time he chose his horse, fighting demons, and the way he fought to protect his land are all unique ideas that support his “mammoth” and “lion” like features. I also feel the author uses to generate the epic hero subject. Even though the idea of him killing his son does not add up to the great national epic notion, from my understanding it just makes for a climactic finale.
I would also like to comment on how the characters are described to a detailed which creates a clearer picture in my head. The author emphasizes on Rudabeh beauty and Zal characteristics such as his skin and white hair. Their love story sets the scene for when Rudabeh gives birth to Rostam. The love of Zal and Rudabeh represent, in my opinion, how two different entities and proclaimed “enemies”, create “a great hero, mammoth-bodied man who will conquer the world with his sword”. Rostam is the reason for Zal and Rudabeh union, which contradicts the fact that Zal said he would grant his son wishes, because he agreed to the union for his own personal gain.
To conclude, this book was for the most part interesting. It was also easy to follow with, since the chronological order of events starting from Zal’s birth to Rostam’s the detailed battles. Lastly I would like to add Rostam being described as a trickster hero and how he uses “tricks” merely to help defeat his enemies, which is different than the usual trickster tales.
I agree completely, it was also very much relatable to contemporary works. While reading it I found myself thinking about star wars and Hercules. Although I am not extremely familiar with those two stories I still understand the basic plot and it seemed to me comparable. I felt as if the characteristics of Rostam were that of Hercules and the story line played out like star wars in respect to the father son dynamic. Rostam’s great strength to fight dragons and to defeat all of his enemies reminded me of a Hercules type figure, while the unknown father-son relationship of Rostam and Sohrab had the similar fate of Anakin and Darth Vader. In addition you can also see how well it connects to the Greek tragedies with similar dramatic endings. In that sense I agree that it does also bring me back to childhood remembering those stories, and also enlightens me to make new connections with works that I’m just being introduced to in this class.
Hercules was definitely something that struck me as similar while I was reading this as well! I was babysitting while I was home on Spring break and the kids were watching it and it was a great connection.
I also agree that the book was an interesting read. It kept my attention throughout which made it easier to read overall. I think Shahnameh is my favorite text of this class so far. It's incredible how many different connections one can make to the tales within the book. Hercules being one example and as we discussed in class, Aladdin is another. There are so many characters and so many relationships that it makes it almost impossible NOT to make various connections.
The story of Zal and Sam is an interesting one. He is cast out as a baby for looking different and then taken care of by the Simorgh. After all that time living with this animal and being away from people it is strange that he is so easily able to communicate with his father and others. When his father first hears of his son being alive he immediately decides to seek him out. When he finds his son it is strange that Zal does not harbor any bad feelings towards his father. You would think after being abandoned and left to die he would question his father’s morality. It is strange how quickly and easily he accepts his father and decides to live with him. Then after he has finally accepted him Sam leaves to go fight in a war and again after only being together for a brief period of time they are again separated. This shows a lack of care on the part of Sam. Another big problem is the fact that after living with a bird for his entire life he is able to speak a human language fluently and be able to hold conversations with his father and others. He supposedly picked up much knowledge very quickly but it still does not explain his ability to communicate with Sam. With Sam and Zal barely knowing each other Zal falls in love with a woman that does not share the same religious views as Sam and their king. This is the first time a father and son do not get along which becomes a recurring theme throughout the epic. Eventually they end up getting along but with each generation the fathers seem to know less and less about how to be a father. This theme of fathers and sons is a huge one and the fathers all being great warriors and intelligent people but not able or willing to take care of their family specifically their children. Zal and Sam is just the beginning of the tension that will result between fathers and sons throughout the epic until Rostam ends up killing his son Sohrab.
This same theme was also interesting to me, especially the fact that Zal did not resent his father for abandoning him. As soon as Sam came back for him he accepted him as his father. I also found strange the fact that Zal was raised by a bird but could still communicate easily with humans, but I suppose since this story is mythical, anything is possible. I found very interesting what you stated in your last paragraph about the tensions between fathers and sons and the fact that none of them seem very interested in raising their sons, but they all seem to still be very loyal to one another, despite their problems. If I was abandoned as a baby to die I wouldn't be so quick to forgive my parents, but I suspect that family loyalty was an important value that this epic was meant to encourage.
It's interesting to me how the characters are portrayed within this collection of stories. The nobility seem to be exceptionally kind to one another, but when they are not, they can be just as exceptionally inclined to behavior quite the opposite.
The King of Samangan, upon hearing that Rostam had lost his horse, says "We stand ready to serve you in any way we can." But Rostam says back "If he remains lost to me, some of your nobility will loose their heads." That seems like kind of a mean thing to say given the circumstances, like if I lost my dog, and told my neighbors I was going to chop off their friends heads if they didn't find him.
In the story of Zal and Rubida "Rudabeh offered to let her hair down Rapunzal-like from her tower, so that Zal could climb up and see her" She was actually going to let him climb up her hair into the tower, there was nothing else that she could think of to let him get into the castle, my thoughts about this were either a: she had extremely long hair or b: the tower was very low, must have been like maybe a 7ft tower at most given the probable height of the man and length of her hair, and that's not a very tall tower.
They seem to have fallen in love based on hearsay, but Zal could not even enter the castle officially, because of the bloodline of that king who was so eager to meet with Zal, seemingly to even offer his castle and territories up to Zal's father as an edition to his empire.
I loved the stories which were assigned though, it gives a glimpse into the psyche of that time period. Interesting that the so oft mentioned "Lion heart" or actions being deemed "like a lion" were a part of the work, it seems being like a lion, something I actually think would be a considerably dumb type of thing to be like in this day and age, was something that, at least the author this text, found quite attractive in a personality. I don’t know about lions, but my cat used to attack me for no reason, and they are related to lions, so maybe I am unfairly biased on the issue.
This post made me laugh! And as I got thinking about what you wrote about the tower, I think the tower would have to have been tall and Rudabeh's hair long, otherwise she could have jumped out of the tower easily and Zal would not have had to climb up to see her.
I definitely agree with what you wrote about the nobility either being extremely kind or ridiculously violent. Cuting off someone's head for not finding your horse does seem a bit extreme to me.
This book was definitely one of the most creative we have read in class (even though the bible and the Quran were pretty creative as well). Oddly, reading this novel reminded me a lot about the Quran and the bible because of the stories told. The 7 trials of Rostam specifically because the novel showed all the struggles that he had to go through. During every trial (most significant the second trial) there was a mention of god. In the second trial he spoke of having faith, he said “when difficulty hits us, he is our source of help” (p. 81). I liked the fact that the characters in this book talk a lot about the Devil and God. This definitely shows a representation on the Islamic culture. We can see that the characters see the devil as an evil being and is compared to the dragon and the witch that Rastam fights in the seven trials. God is clearly mentioned when something good happens, but not really mentioned in the case of something negative and horrible. One interesting thing about this story is shown from the beginning where Sam rejects his son and leaves him in the woods. Soon after a bird named Simorgh helped and rescued him and cared for him as his own. This Simorgh could be seen as a “sign from God” that it was fate or the destiny of the child to survive. This is also compared to how Rosdam rejects his son at a very young age yes are somehow reunited later on possibly by “fate.” Something that stood out to me in the beginning of the book was a conversation with Sam and Zal where Sam says “seek knowledge and be just and to taste the pleasures they bring.” This phrase is definitely something that can be compared to what has been discussed in class before. Sam is encouraging Zal to learn and “seek knowledge” which is important in the Islamic culture even today. Sam also mentions the importance of to be just and to be generous. Reading this specific passage reminds me very much of the Quran and what is said in the Quran about being generous, sharing, being just as well as all the hints of knowledge and its importance of all of these things in order to be closer to Allah.
I like your analysis of how fate plays a role in why Zal is able to survive because the Simorgh saved and cared for him. Fate and "God's plan" is constantly seen throughout the book in the seven trials. I had not thought of a connection between the Qu'ran and Rostam until I read your post. The Qu'ran and Rostam both emphasize the importance and necessity of seeking knowledge as often as you breathe air or drink water and I think this connection is important to note to better understand Rostam. I like the idea of fate seen throughout the book and also find it interesting when comparing the reasons that Rostam fights are different from Aeneas as presented in the Aeneid. Although both characters are ruled by fate, Aeneas fights for his mission and family, whereas Rostam fights because he feels it is what he wants to do in the moment.
This was my first experience with Tales of Love and War from the Shahnameh. I was a bit nervous about how well I would comprehend the stories and mythological aspects of the epic. However, I feel that the way the book was set up really enhanced my reading experience and what I got from the readings. I liked that all the stories were in chronological order and I believe that the introduction was a very crucial part of the epic for the reader. Right from the beginning, the mood of the epic was set by the stunning images on each page of the introduction along with the helpful history about Rostam. I found it very beneficial to read about the basic lineage of Rostam because those details were mentioned later throughout the chapters. The basic overview of major plot points also made it easier for me to follow the stories and to better comprehend what was happening. Also, I found it helpful that only a few pages into the introduction the main recurring theme of the father and son relationship was introduced. This is a strong theme especially seen in the stories surrounding Sam and Sal and also Rostam and Sohrab. The introduction also played a crucial role in introducing the idea of mythology that occurs within the epic. I did not have any prior knowledge relating to mythology, so I personally think the first chapter outlined the main reasons why some surreal events happen in later chapters was really beneficial to a first time reader. For example, the introduction was the first place where the Simorph was introduced. It was explained how the Simorph was the protector of Zal, and the in turn became the protector of Rostam which is how he gained access to magical powers. Overall I think that the way the book was set up and the very detailed introduction really enhanced my reading experience.
I completely agree with your points. The introduction was incredibly helpful in the understanding of the chapters that followed. I was able to enjoy this book because everything was in order, well written, and was familiar due to the introduction. I think it is important to include an intro like the one in Shahnameh because of how huge the book in its entirety is. One must know where the story is picking up from and a little background about it. Overall, I think the book was well written and organized. It was an extremely good read.
While reading Tales of Love and War from the Shahnameh, I thought it was interesting that it was a lot easier to understand. Like the Virgil, there was a big emphasis in conflict between son and father, such as Sam and Zal-- when Zal falls in love with Rudabeh which is the first conflict between the two since they reunited. Another father and son that reside in conflict are Rostam and Sohrab when like Sam and Zal, they are separated and not knowing of each others growth/existence which ends in tradegy when Rostam kills Sohrab just to find out it was his own son that he killed.
What I thought was most interesting was that you could see the greed, power, war and such ruins family ties through generation. The generation of men are so powerful and gifted yet they are blinded by their own duties and selfishness that they do not pay attention to their families. It seems like each son is a little better and mature than the father that has left the son, yet this cycle doesn't break. With the death of Sohrab, does it show the tragedy and problematic situations that the legacy has by abandoning their family.
However, this book seemed the most understandable and readable from all the books that we read so far minus the bible. Although there were a handful of characters, each character had their specific characteristics that allow me to be able to differentiate them, and not only that, each chapter was its own little story which made it easier to be able to understand the topic of the chapter.
Your analysis on the father-son relationships and how power ruins the family is very interesting. I agree that they get blinded by their power and and lose touch with their families. This is different from Virgil's, The Aeneid; Aeneas cherished his family and served to protect them. Family was not a major theme in Shanameh as it was in The Aeneid. I found it surprising that Sam abandoned Zal after noticing he has white hair. This instance also shows the tragedy caused by abandonment of their family. This is perfect example of greed; Sam was hoping for a better looking/more successful son and when Zal did not meet that expectation, Sam sent him away not seeming to care about the fact that he gave life to a son. I also found this book rather interesting because of the characters. Each had an interesting personality that was very relate-able in today's world and allowed for an easier interpretation, as compared to Plato's Republic.
So far the Tales of Love and War from the Shahnameh is my favorite piece that we have read. It was a much easier read than most of the other pieces of literature and the stories were more captivating. One thing that I found interesting while reading it was the idea of family. On one hand it was a huge emphasis and characters prided themselves on who their father was. Yet at the same time the idea of family was not as important as in other pieces that we have read. For example, Sam got rid of Zal for being different as soon as he laid eyes on him. Also, the characters did not remain faithful to their spouses. There were more affairs than would be expected from people who cherish the idea of family. Another thing that I found interesting was how easy all the tasks were that Rostam had. For example, when he encountered the witch, he barely had to do anything to defeat her. Along with the killing of the demon Arzhang. He tore the head off of the demon without a real struggle. The only fight that really challenged him was the combat with the White Demon. I thought that this epic had almost a fairy tale feel to it. With the idea of a Romeo and Juliet love where the people were willing to die for each other and they were going against what their families thought was right. Then there was the point where Rudabeh wanted Zal to climb her hair to reach her. It also had a very prominent theme of fate. Everyone's fate was already laid out and for some of the characters their fate was known from the beginning from what the astrologers said. The astrologers said that Zal and Rudabeh would have a son who will conquer the world and who will life the king's throne above the clouds. This was found to be true along with what was foreshadowed about Rostram's brother Shaghad.
You raise a good point about this epic feeling like a fairy tale at times. Some of the battles seemed almost comical in how they portrayed the life and death struggle between characters. I also enjoyed reading this text; it felt more centered on the characters and their motives, which made it much easier to decipher what was happening, unlike the poetical and obscure passages in the Aeneid.
In the introduction of Tales of Love and War from the Shahnameh, it is discussed that these stories were written in a pre-Islamic era. I found it interesting to examine the aspects of religion that were brought up throughout The Tales, and to determine which aspects were similar to the soon to be widespread religion of Islam. I found that although the specifics are slightly different, Islam and the monotheistic religion of Zabolestan are similar in that they both preach tolerance and acceptance of other religions. Very early on, a conflict occurs between Zal and Mehrab due to differences in religious belief. Mehrab offers Zal an invitation to come to his palace; Zal rejects this invitation because, “Sam would not approve, and neither would King Manuchehr if he heard of it, if I became drunk with wine in the house of someone who worships idols” (13). It appears that Mehrab and the people of Kabol practice an idol-based religion whereas the main King, Manuchehr, and the people of Zabolestan, seem to practice a monotheistic religion in which God is the one who “maintains the world,” and “leads our souls to the path of righteousness” (23). This seems to be along the lines of what Muslims believe of Allah, “the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds” (surah 1). The believers of the monotheistic religion of The Tales seem to be just as accepting, maybe even more accepting, as the Qur’an influences Muslims to be. The Qur’an preaches tolerance of all People of the Book, including Muslims, Jews and Christians. Although Zal is unaccepting of Mehrab’s idol-based religion at first, their children do eventually become married and eventually their differences in religion become something of the past. There actually is no mention of their different religions during their union. Menuchehr is also hesitant to allow the union of two “diverse” people because he believes it will bring chaos unto his people. However, Menuchehr is persuaded by Sam’s letter to allow the two young people to marry, despite the religious imbalance it would bring to his nation. The tolerance of the monotheistic religion of Zabolestan proves to be even slightly more accepting of others than Islam, because Islam mostly highlights its acceptance of only other monotheistic religions, whereas the religion of Zabolestan allows intermarriage with a person of idol-based religious beliefs.
I really enjoyed reading this book, I found the language and imagery to be very creative and lovely. I enjoyed the fact that there each chapter had it's own individual story, it made it easier to separate the lessons or difficulties that the characters had to overcome. The chapters were also chronological or linearly ordered event which made it easy to follow. It started from Zal's birth to Rostam's battles. The introduction of the main recurring theme of the father and son bond and relationship is important to this epic because I think the theme of father and son plays an important role within this epic because the entire plot line seems to revolve around the family blood line of Sam. Also there is emphasis placed on the importance of who once mates with, which ties back to the idea of the father and son tie. I am looking forward to discussing or learning about how exactly this epic functions as a nationalistic epic for Persia, since I do not have a lot of background information on the history of Persia.
I agree with you on the basis that it was a much easier read than the previous works we have read. I struggled alot with Republic so this was a nice refresher. You make the point that the recurring theme in the book is the father son bond, and this ties into The Aenid as well, because both stories dealt with family. I also agree that it will be interesting to learn more in depth information about how this relates to Persia. Great post!
I definitely agree with you two here. The strong father and son relationship is a common theme in both this book and in Aeneid. We have discussed the word pietas as a strong duty and responsibility and both of these characters show it towards their fathers. I do find it funny that although both Rostam and Aeneas are viewed as these larger than life men, with strength and power unlike others, they act very differently. Rostam seems to have more machismo and has a want to go to battle and fight for his family and his father. On the other hand, Aeneas takes a different route and decides to flee the city to save his father along with others. He doesn’t feel the need to fight to prove his strength, but chooses to show his responsibility by protecting his family and helping them out of the city.
I would like to comment on the recurring theme of father and sons in Shahnameh. First there is Sam and Zal. Sam is ashamed of Zal because of his black skin and white hair which makes him look like a demon (but is also said to look like an old man) and he ostracized his son until he has a haunting dream and tries to find his son once again. Once they are reunited everything seems dandy and all is forgiven. Their relationship can be paralleled to Rostam and his son Sohrab. Rostam had a lover named Tahmina and he told her if she ever bore a child to give him a certain bracelet so that he would know who they were if they were to ever meet. Like Zal, Sohrab doesn’t meet his father until he has grown into a man, but instead of them being reunited by a dream, they meet on the battlefield and neither know that they are related. Unfortunately, Rostam kills Sohrab before he sees the bracelet. These two relationships can be compared in the sense that not only is this all the same blood line it has distinct similarities. For example, both Rostam and Sam don’t see their child until he has grown to manhood, however in Zal’s case he was raised by a bird and in Sohrab’s case he was raised by his abandoned mother. Also the idea that the mother is never reunited with the father, in Sam’s story the mother is unnamed and is only seen as a palace courtier that Sam abandons with his “demon baby.” In Rostam’s story he just leaves Tahmina to go on more campaigns, but she only seen with Rostam when they conceive a child and is abandoned to take care of it. Although there are many more similarities there is also some differences in the theme of father and son for Sam and Zal, and Rostam and Sohrab. When Sam and Zal meet again they are reunited in the way that Sam celebrates the coming home of his son Zal having a huge feast and names him king of Zavolestan. While when Rostam and Sohrab meet it’s on the battlefield where Sohrab is killed by his father. I think the theme of father and son plays an important role within this epic because the entire epic seems to center around family blood line of Sam and the importance of who one mates with. For example the whole scandal of Zal and Rudabeh since they weren’t of the same marriage, and how Rostam’s scandalous half son is what causes his downfall. Without this theme, the epic would lack sense and symmetry.
ReplyDeleteWhile doing this week's readings, I too noticed this reoccurring theme of father and son. While I agree with your points on maintaining the symmetry of the epic, I also think it holds a greater meaning, similar to in "The Aeneid". With the case of Sam and Zal, Sam shows remorse at the treatment of his son and in doing so is able to reconnect with him. Rostam on the other hand, while a great and strong hero, seems to care less about his son then campaigning and so never is reunited with his son and in fact commits the dreadful deed of killing him. In this way I think that "Shahname" is going further than merely creating symmetry, it is also creating a story about morality and familial obligation.
DeleteI thought Rostam was one of the more exciting pieces of literature we have read so far this semester. It could just be me but I thought the use of imagery that Ferdowsi was able to use throughout the stories was amazing. It especially stood out in dialogue between Zal and Rudabeh, when they use their servants to communicate with each other. I thought the story line was a little corny at times, two lovers separated by a great distance who would be forbidden to see each other because their parents would be infuriated.
ReplyDeleteTo go along with the imagery in the book, I liked how he would break away from the story with the use of a poem. It was typically how the descriptions of the characters became so clear to me. For example on page 12 when the courtier is talking about Rudabeh,
“In Purdah, and unseen by anyone,
He has a daughter lovelier than the sun.
Lashes like ravens’ wings protect a pair
Of eyes like wild narcissi hidden there;
If you would seek the moon, it is her face;
If you seek musk, her hair’s its hiding place...”
He used this style of writing consistently throughout the play. I’m not sure if it was the difference in the way it read or how descriptive it was that I liked but I thought it made the reading much better. I also didn’t realize how impressive the pictures were in the beginning of the book until the end when they talked about the pits in the hunting land.
I agree, and I think it made for a much more interesting read. The style of writing and how the characters speak is more formal, metaphoric, and passionate. I like how rather than just calling someone strong, they are described as “lionhearted” and someone beautiful is “paradise.” I also noticed that all the characters feel seem to feel everything more deeply than most characters in books of modern literature, and they express it very eloquently. For example, Rostam passionately exclaims he would rather die than be chained and embarrass his name- and he means it. I really enjoyed the eloquent and passionate language because it made for a more exciting read and exposed me to a different time period and culture’s beautiful style of writing.
DeleteBrian, I agree with you to an extent that the parents of Rudabeh and Zal would be infuriated at them if they fell in love with one another. However, Rudabeh and Zal were separated and had difficulty becoming lovers because of the vast cultural differences and their parents' mutual xenophobia. I enjoyed learning about the various cities mentioned in the book because it showed how vast the Persian Empire was during Rostam's time. Shahnameh had similar cultural themes to Virgil's Aeneid. Both had dealt with the fact that God was a major factor in decisions people made, and in different ways, The Roman and Persian Empires express xenophobia, as was shown in both The Aeneid and Shahnameh.
DeleteWhile reading the Tales of Love and War from The Shahnameh, I noticed how important it was to have an epic hero at all times in the stories. All of these tales, emphasize the hero, who is almost always descended form the same line of Sam. For the entire lineage of Sam, it is seen that family is not always the most important thing to the heroes. For, in the beginning, when Sam’s son Zal was seen as strange and cursed, he decided to get rid of Zal instead of embracing his son’s flaws. Luckily Zal did not perish, and when he grew older his father Sam had a change of heart and cherished his son. But, Zal did not take heed of the love offered and said that he was destined to fight in wars. Then when Zal produces his son, Rostam, he too sets off to fight instead of taking care of his families wants and needs, for it was his fate to fight all the wars that he saw as just. Likewise, Rostam’s son Sohrab, unknown to Rostam, fights his father because he knew that what he was meant to do. It goes to show that Rostam was not a family man because he did not even recognize his own son. Unfortunately, the fate of being a hero in all of these stories is to forever be at war for the good of the nation, leaving family behind.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that I would like to mention is the complete trust in God displayed in the book. I noticed that whenever one of the heroes met with someone, especially the king, they would call on God to give His blessing to the one addressed. Likewise, whenever a letter was addressed it would start by showering down God’s blessing on the receiver. Furthermore, all of the great warriors would call on God before and during battles, so that He would protect them, if it were His will. Along with this, all the warriors were not fearful of death in itself, but were most concerned as to where they would end up after death, heaven or hell. Since this was one of there main concerns they tried to fight every battle and perform every task in a just way, with God as witness. So, unlike Virgil’s Aeneid, the characters in the Shahnameh believe in only one God, like the Muslims in Asia, instead of many God’s like the Greeks and Romans. But, similarly both books trust in some higher power that controls and guides them.
I really found your argument about the heroes being fated to leave their families and go off to war very interesting. Like Aeneas, these heroes were fated to fight in these wars and to accomplish something greater than themselves as individuals. This brings us back to the idea of fate, and how no one can escape from their own. The Gods influence the actions of the heroes in these stories to ensure that they are able to fulfill their destinies. Both Aeneas and Zal left their significant partners in order to fulfill a destiny that was much greater than themselves, and would influence countless others well beyond their own life times.
DeleteRostam: Tales of Love and War from the Sahnameh was definitely a book that I have enjoyed reading, not only are the characters larger than life but it took me back to the days when I would watch movies about witches and monsters. While reading, I felt like I was taken back to a fantasy world of superheroes and villains but also intertwining with themes of love, loss, courage and honor. It also shows different generations of father son relationship which seems to escalate quickly.
ReplyDeleteA lot of the events that happen in the book seemed so surreal and hard to imagine now that I’m older but that is what makes the character and the story itself. Rostam’s gruesome birth, the time he chose his horse, fighting demons, and the way he fought to protect his land are all unique ideas that support his “mammoth” and “lion” like features. I also feel the author uses to generate the epic hero subject. Even though the idea of him killing his son does not add up to the great national epic notion, from my understanding it just makes for a climactic finale.
I would also like to comment on how the characters are described to a detailed which creates a clearer picture in my head. The author emphasizes on Rudabeh beauty and Zal characteristics such as his skin and white hair. Their love story sets the scene for when Rudabeh gives birth to Rostam. The love of Zal and Rudabeh represent, in my opinion, how two different entities and proclaimed “enemies”, create “a great hero, mammoth-bodied man who will conquer the world with his sword”. Rostam is the reason for Zal and Rudabeh union, which contradicts the fact that Zal said he would grant his son wishes, because he agreed to the union for his own personal gain.
To conclude, this book was for the most part interesting. It was also easy to follow with, since the chronological order of events starting from Zal’s birth to Rostam’s the detailed battles. Lastly I would like to add Rostam being described as a trickster hero and how he uses “tricks” merely to help defeat his enemies, which is different than the usual trickster tales.
I agree completely, it was also very much relatable to contemporary works. While reading it I found myself thinking about star wars and Hercules. Although I am not extremely familiar with those two stories I still understand the basic plot and it seemed to me comparable. I felt as if the characteristics of Rostam were that of Hercules and the story line played out like star wars in respect to the father son dynamic. Rostam’s great strength to fight dragons and to defeat all of his enemies reminded me of a Hercules type figure, while the unknown father-son relationship of Rostam and Sohrab had the similar fate of Anakin and Darth Vader. In addition you can also see how well it connects to the Greek tragedies with similar dramatic endings. In that sense I agree that it does also bring me back to childhood remembering those stories, and also enlightens me to make new connections with works that I’m just being introduced to in this class.
DeleteHercules was definitely something that struck me as similar while I was reading this as well! I was babysitting while I was home on Spring break and the kids were watching it and it was a great connection.
DeleteI also agree that the book was an interesting read. It kept my attention throughout which made it easier to read overall. I think Shahnameh is my favorite text of this class so far. It's incredible how many different connections one can make to the tales within the book. Hercules being one example and as we discussed in class, Aladdin is another. There are so many characters and so many relationships that it makes it almost impossible NOT to make various connections.
The story of Zal and Sam is an interesting one. He is cast out as a baby for looking different and then taken care of by the Simorgh. After all that time living with this animal and being away from people it is strange that he is so easily able to communicate with his father and others. When his father first hears of his son being alive he immediately decides to seek him out. When he finds his son it is strange that Zal does not harbor any bad feelings towards his father. You would think after being abandoned and left to die he would question his father’s morality. It is strange how quickly and easily he accepts his father and decides to live with him. Then after he has finally accepted him Sam leaves to go fight in a war and again after only being together for a brief period of time they are again separated. This shows a lack of care on the part of Sam.
ReplyDeleteAnother big problem is the fact that after living with a bird for his entire life he is able to speak a human language fluently and be able to hold conversations with his father and others. He supposedly picked up much knowledge very quickly but it still does not explain his ability to communicate with Sam.
With Sam and Zal barely knowing each other Zal falls in love with a woman that does not share the same religious views as Sam and their king. This is the first time a father and son do not get along which becomes a recurring theme throughout the epic. Eventually they end up getting along but with each generation the fathers seem to know less and less about how to be a father. This theme of fathers and sons is a huge one and the fathers all being great warriors and intelligent people but not able or willing to take care of their family specifically their children. Zal and Sam is just the beginning of the tension that will result between fathers and sons throughout the epic until Rostam ends up killing his son Sohrab.
This same theme was also interesting to me, especially the fact that Zal did not resent his father for abandoning him. As soon as Sam came back for him he accepted him as his father. I also found strange the fact that Zal was raised by a bird but could still communicate easily with humans, but I suppose since this story is mythical, anything is possible. I found very interesting what you stated in your last paragraph about the tensions between fathers and sons and the fact that none of them seem very interested in raising their sons, but they all seem to still be very loyal to one another, despite their problems. If I was abandoned as a baby to die I wouldn't be so quick to forgive my parents, but I suspect that family loyalty was an important value that this epic was meant to encourage.
DeleteIt's interesting to me how the characters are portrayed within this collection of stories. The nobility seem to be exceptionally kind to one another, but when they are not, they can be just as exceptionally inclined to behavior quite the opposite.
ReplyDeleteThe King of Samangan, upon hearing that Rostam had lost his horse, says "We stand ready to serve you in any way we can." But Rostam says back "If he remains lost to me, some of your nobility will loose their heads." That seems like kind of a mean thing to say given the circumstances, like if I lost my dog, and told my neighbors I was going to chop off their friends heads if they didn't find him.
In the story of Zal and Rubida "Rudabeh offered to let her hair down Rapunzal-like from her tower, so that Zal could climb up and see her" She was actually going to let him climb up her hair into the tower, there was nothing else that she could think of to let him get into the castle, my thoughts about this were either a: she had extremely long hair or b: the tower was very low, must have been like maybe a 7ft tower at most given the probable height of the man and length of her hair, and that's not a very tall tower.
They seem to have fallen in love based on hearsay, but Zal could not even enter the castle officially, because of the bloodline of that king who was so eager to meet with Zal, seemingly to even offer his castle and territories up to Zal's father as an edition to his empire.
I loved the stories which were assigned though, it gives a glimpse into the psyche of that time period. Interesting that the so oft mentioned "Lion heart" or actions being deemed "like a lion" were a part of the work, it seems being like a lion, something I actually think would be a considerably dumb type of thing to be like in this day and age, was something that, at least the author this text, found quite attractive in a personality. I don’t know about lions, but my cat used to attack me for no reason, and they are related to lions, so maybe I am unfairly biased on the issue.
This post made me laugh! And as I got thinking about what you wrote about the tower, I think the tower would have to have been tall and Rudabeh's hair long, otherwise she could have jumped out of the tower easily and Zal would not have had to climb up to see her.
DeleteI definitely agree with what you wrote about the nobility either being extremely kind or ridiculously violent. Cuting off someone's head for not finding your horse does seem a bit extreme to me.
This book was definitely one of the most creative we have read in class (even though the bible and the Quran were pretty creative as well). Oddly, reading this novel reminded me a lot about the Quran and the bible because of the stories told. The 7 trials of Rostam specifically because the novel showed all the struggles that he had to go through. During every trial (most significant the second trial) there was a mention of god. In the second trial he spoke of having faith, he said “when difficulty hits us, he is our source of help” (p. 81). I liked the fact that the characters in this book talk a lot about the Devil and God. This definitely shows a representation on the Islamic culture. We can see that the characters see the devil as an evil being and is compared to the dragon and the witch that Rastam fights in the seven trials. God is clearly mentioned when something good happens, but not really mentioned in the case of something negative and horrible.
ReplyDeleteOne interesting thing about this story is shown from the beginning where Sam rejects his son and leaves him in the woods. Soon after a bird named Simorgh helped and rescued him and cared for him as his own. This Simorgh could be seen as a “sign from God” that it was fate or the destiny of the child to survive. This is also compared to how Rosdam rejects his son at a very young age yes are somehow reunited later on possibly by “fate.”
Something that stood out to me in the beginning of the book was a conversation with Sam and Zal where Sam says “seek knowledge and be just and to taste the pleasures they bring.” This phrase is definitely something that can be compared to what has been discussed in class before. Sam is encouraging Zal to learn and “seek knowledge” which is important in the Islamic culture even today. Sam also mentions the importance of to be just and to be generous. Reading this specific passage reminds me very much of the Quran and what is said in the Quran about being generous, sharing, being just as well as all the hints of knowledge and its importance of all of these things in order to be closer to Allah.
I like your analysis of how fate plays a role in why Zal is able to survive because the Simorgh saved and cared for him. Fate and "God's plan" is constantly seen throughout the book in the seven trials. I had not thought of a connection between the Qu'ran and Rostam until I read your post. The Qu'ran and Rostam both emphasize the importance and necessity of seeking knowledge as often as you breathe air or drink water and I think this connection is important to note to better understand Rostam. I like the idea of fate seen throughout the book and also find it interesting when comparing the reasons that Rostam fights are different from Aeneas as presented in the Aeneid. Although both characters are ruled by fate, Aeneas fights for his mission and family, whereas Rostam fights because he feels it is what he wants to do in the moment.
DeleteThis was my first experience with Tales of Love and War from the Shahnameh. I was a bit nervous about how well I would comprehend the stories and mythological aspects of the epic. However, I feel that the way the book was set up really enhanced my reading experience and what I got from the readings. I liked that all the stories were in chronological order and I believe that the introduction was a very crucial part of the epic for the reader. Right from the beginning, the mood of the epic was set by the stunning images on each page of the introduction along with the helpful history about Rostam. I found it very beneficial to read about the basic lineage of Rostam because those details were mentioned later throughout the chapters. The basic overview of major plot points also made it easier for me to follow the stories and to better comprehend what was happening. Also, I found it helpful that only a few pages into the introduction the main recurring theme of the father and son relationship was introduced. This is a strong theme especially seen in the stories surrounding Sam and Sal and also Rostam and Sohrab.
ReplyDeleteThe introduction also played a crucial role in introducing the idea of mythology that occurs within the epic. I did not have any prior knowledge relating to mythology, so I personally think the first chapter outlined the main reasons why some surreal events happen in later chapters was really beneficial to a first time reader. For example, the introduction was the first place where the Simorph was introduced. It was explained how the Simorph was the protector of Zal, and the in turn became the protector of Rostam which is how he gained access to magical powers. Overall I think that the way the book was set up and the very detailed introduction really enhanced my reading experience.
I completely agree with your points. The introduction was incredibly helpful in the understanding of the chapters that followed. I was able to enjoy this book because everything was in order, well written, and was familiar due to the introduction. I think it is important to include an intro like the one in Shahnameh because of how huge the book in its entirety is. One must know where the story is picking up from and a little background about it. Overall, I think the book was well written and organized. It was an extremely good read.
DeleteWhile reading Tales of Love and War from the Shahnameh, I thought it was interesting that it was a lot easier to understand. Like the Virgil, there was a big emphasis in conflict between son and father, such as Sam and Zal-- when Zal falls in love with Rudabeh which is the first conflict between the two since they reunited. Another father and son that reside in conflict are Rostam and Sohrab when like Sam and Zal, they are separated and not knowing of each others growth/existence which ends in tradegy when Rostam kills Sohrab just to find out it was his own son that he killed.
ReplyDeleteWhat I thought was most interesting was that you could see the greed, power, war and such ruins family ties through generation. The generation of men are so powerful and gifted yet they are blinded by their own duties and selfishness that they do not pay attention to their families. It seems like each son is a little better and mature than the father that has left the son, yet this cycle doesn't break. With the death of Sohrab, does it show the tragedy and problematic situations that the legacy has by abandoning their family.
However, this book seemed the most understandable and readable from all the books that we read so far minus the bible. Although there were a handful of characters, each character had their specific characteristics that allow me to be able to differentiate them, and not only that, each chapter was its own little story which made it easier to be able to understand the topic of the chapter.
Your analysis on the father-son relationships and how power ruins the family is very interesting. I agree that they get blinded by their power and and lose touch with their families. This is different from Virgil's, The Aeneid; Aeneas cherished his family and served to protect them. Family was not a major theme in Shanameh as it was in The Aeneid. I found it surprising that Sam abandoned Zal after noticing he has white hair. This instance also shows the tragedy caused by abandonment of their family. This is perfect example of greed; Sam was hoping for a better looking/more successful son and when Zal did not meet that expectation, Sam sent him away not seeming to care about the fact that he gave life to a son. I also found this book rather interesting because of the characters. Each had an interesting personality that was very relate-able in today's world and allowed for an easier interpretation, as compared to Plato's Republic.
DeleteSo far the Tales of Love and War from the Shahnameh is my favorite piece that we have read. It was a much easier read than most of the other pieces of literature and the stories were more captivating. One thing that I found interesting while reading it was the idea of family. On one hand it was a huge emphasis and characters prided themselves on who their father was. Yet at the same time the idea of family was not as important as in other pieces that we have read. For example, Sam got rid of Zal for being different as soon as he laid eyes on him. Also, the characters did not remain faithful to their spouses. There were more affairs than would be expected from people who cherish the idea of family.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that I found interesting was how easy all the tasks were that Rostam had. For example, when he encountered the witch, he barely had to do anything to defeat her. Along with the killing of the demon Arzhang. He tore the head off of the demon without a real struggle. The only fight that really challenged him was the combat with the White Demon.
I thought that this epic had almost a fairy tale feel to it. With the idea of a Romeo and Juliet love where the people were willing to die for each other and they were going against what their families thought was right. Then there was the point where Rudabeh wanted Zal to climb her hair to reach her. It also had a very prominent theme of fate. Everyone's fate was already laid out and for some of the characters their fate was known from the beginning from what the astrologers said. The astrologers said that Zal and Rudabeh would have a son who will conquer the world and who will life the king's throne above the clouds. This was found to be true along with what was foreshadowed about Rostram's brother Shaghad.
You raise a good point about this epic feeling like a fairy tale at times. Some of the battles seemed almost comical in how they portrayed the life and death struggle between characters. I also enjoyed reading this text; it felt more centered on the characters and their motives, which made it much easier to decipher what was happening, unlike the poetical and obscure passages in the Aeneid.
DeleteIn the introduction of Tales of Love and War from the Shahnameh, it is discussed that these stories were written in a pre-Islamic era. I found it interesting to examine the aspects of religion that were brought up throughout The Tales, and to determine which aspects were similar to the soon to be widespread religion of Islam. I found that although the specifics are slightly different, Islam and the monotheistic religion of Zabolestan are similar in that they both preach tolerance and acceptance of other religions. Very early on, a conflict occurs between Zal and Mehrab due to differences in religious belief. Mehrab offers Zal an invitation to come to his palace; Zal rejects this invitation because, “Sam would not approve, and neither would King Manuchehr if he heard of it, if I became drunk with wine in the house of someone who worships idols” (13). It appears that Mehrab and the people of Kabol practice an idol-based religion whereas the main King, Manuchehr, and the people of Zabolestan, seem to practice a monotheistic religion in which God is the one who “maintains the world,” and “leads our souls to the path of righteousness” (23). This seems to be along the lines of what Muslims believe of Allah, “the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds” (surah 1). The believers of the monotheistic religion of The Tales seem to be just as accepting, maybe even more accepting, as the Qur’an influences Muslims to be. The Qur’an preaches tolerance of all People of the Book, including Muslims, Jews and Christians. Although Zal is unaccepting of Mehrab’s idol-based religion at first, their children do eventually become married and eventually their differences in religion become something of the past. There actually is no mention of their different religions during their union. Menuchehr is also hesitant to allow the union of two “diverse” people because he believes it will bring chaos unto his people. However, Menuchehr is persuaded by Sam’s letter to allow the two young people to marry, despite the religious imbalance it would bring to his nation. The tolerance of the monotheistic religion of Zabolestan proves to be even slightly more accepting of others than Islam, because Islam mostly highlights its acceptance of only other monotheistic religions, whereas the religion of Zabolestan allows intermarriage with a person of idol-based religious beliefs.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed reading this book, I found the language and imagery to be very creative and lovely. I enjoyed the fact that there each chapter had it's own individual story, it made it easier to separate the lessons or difficulties that the characters had to overcome. The chapters were also chronological or linearly ordered event which made it easy to follow. It started from Zal's birth to Rostam's battles. The introduction of the main recurring theme of the father and son bond and relationship is important to this epic because I think the theme of father and son plays an important role within this epic because the entire plot line seems to revolve around the family blood line of Sam. Also there is emphasis placed on the importance of who once mates with, which ties back to the idea of the father and son tie. I am looking forward to discussing or learning about how exactly this epic functions as a nationalistic epic for Persia, since I do not have a lot of background information on the history of Persia.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on the basis that it was a much easier read than the previous works we have read. I struggled alot with Republic so this was a nice refresher. You make the point that the recurring theme in the book is the father son bond, and this ties into The Aenid as well, because both stories dealt with family. I also agree that it will be interesting to learn more in depth information about how this relates to Persia. Great post!
DeleteI definitely agree with you two here. The strong father and son relationship is a common theme in both this book and in Aeneid. We have discussed the word pietas as a strong duty and responsibility and both of these characters show it towards their fathers. I do find it funny that although both Rostam and Aeneas are viewed as these larger than life men, with strength and power unlike others, they act very differently. Rostam seems to have more machismo and has a want to go to battle and fight for his family and his father. On the other hand, Aeneas takes a different route and decides to flee the city to save his father along with others. He doesn’t feel the need to fight to prove his strength, but chooses to show his responsibility by protecting his family and helping them out of the city.
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